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How Many Goals will Sidney Crosby score in 2010-11?

First things first: do not call me a Crosby-hater.  That's the last thing in the world that I am.  Here's my post-Olympic reaction, and here's where I advocated for him as Rookie of the Year.

Now, apparently there are some Pittsburgh fans out there who think Crosby is going to score 50 goals again this season.  Despite being a gifted playmaker, he has no track record of scoring like that.  Let's look as his three-year weighted projection:

 

Season GP G A P Sh
2007-08 53 24 48 72 173
2008-09 77 33 70 103 238
2009-10 81 51 58 109 298
3-2-1 Average 75 41 60 101 257

 

Now it's entirely possible that he stepped up his game and improved his scoring touch last season - he did take a lot more shots than in the past.  I found the 29 most-comparable seasons to Crosby's 2009-10 over the last 40 years.  Here's how those players did the next season, per 82 games:

 

Player GP G A P Sh Age
Crosby 2009-10 81 51 58 109 298 22.4
29 Comps 82 52 59 111 298 23
29 Comps Yr+1 82 42 57 99 274 24
Per 77 GP 77 39 54 93 257 23.4
Crosby 3-2-1 75 41 60 101 257 23.4

 

There were a lot more pure goalscorers in this group than playmakers, so both their goals and assists dropped in the year following their big year.  They also played, on average, four fewer games in that next season (hence Crosby's projection per 77 games - if he plays that much, I doubt he'll have as few as 54 assists.)  What's clear is that regardless of which projection method we follow, we expect Crosby to score around 40 goals next season.  Remember - when a player has a big season, particularly one that's out of line with what he's done before, it's because everything broke right for him.  In his next season, we shouldn't expect everything to go his way, and so he's unlikely to put up the same big numbers.

Of course, what we've got here is a mean projection.  20% of Crosby's comparables scored 50+ goals the following season, while half scored less than 40, which should give you an idea of the range of possible outcomes.  Sidney Crosby is an amazing player, but you shouldn't put your money on him repeating his 50 goal season.

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You’re forgetting that he changed his stick and curve before last year, hence his MONSTER performance. /Pierre McGuire

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by Bruce Peter on Sep 2, 2010 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

true.

Where’s Jason Gregor today? I miss his “YOU ARE WRONG” posts.

by Hawerchuk on Sep 2, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

You both forget the real problem is that it’s not an Olympic year, which is why Crosby was so jacked up last year…big games bring clutch results.

by antro on Sep 2, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for that Jason Gregor moment.

by Hawerchuk on Sep 2, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure, but how many of those 29 comps are narcissistic sex-addicts? :D

by Passive Voice on Sep 2, 2010 2:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I didn’t know Tiger Woods played hockey.

by JustinM on Sep 2, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

BTW Gabe, how do you go about finding comps?

by Passive Voice on Sep 2, 2010 2:16 PM EDT reply actions  

You want the SQL query?

by Hawerchuk on Sep 2, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

select e1.year1 as y1,e1.pts as y1g,e1.id as y1i,e1.gms as y1gp,e1.sh as y1sh,e1.age as e1ag,e1.goals as e1gl,e1.assists as e1al,
e2.year1 as y2,e2.pts as y2g,e2.id as y2i,e2.gms as y2gp,e2.sh as y2sh,e2.goals as e2gl,e2.assists as e2al
from sum_player_data as e1
inner join sum_player_data as e2
on e1.assists>=53 and e1.assists<=63 and e1.goals>=46 and e1.goals<=56 and e2.id=e1.id and e2.year1=e1.year1+1 and e2.year1>=1967
group by e1.year1,e1.id
INTO OUTFILE ‘scorers6.csv’
FIELDS TERMINATED BY ‘,’
LINES TERMINATED BY ‘\n’;

by Hawerchuk on Sep 2, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

so a range of 53-63 assists and 46-56 goals to qualify as a crosby comp?

by Passive Voice on Sep 2, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

or i guess technically “to have a season qualify as a comp for crosby’s 0910 season” ?

by Passive Voice on Sep 2, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

While I know that Crosby shot an increased S% this year, my impression is that he took more shots from closer to the net. If it’s not too much trouble, how does your expected-scoring-by-shot-location break down for him this last year?

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Sep 2, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh wow, he went a lot further the other way.

Huh.

So he just shot a whole lot more instead of shooting more and moving closer. Interesting. In that case, I’m expecting a stronger regression than I otherwise would have.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Sep 2, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see what impact the new requirements for goaltender equipment have on goal totals for big scorers. If it means a 1-2% increase in shot percentage this season, I think Crosby might be in the 50 goal neighborhood again. Crosby and Stamkos had the highest shooting percentages in the league by a pretty wide margin (among shooters who took 200+ shots). It would seem unlikely that they would maintain that kind of shooting efficiency. However, a moderate decrease in shot efficiency could be offset by lower save percentages of opposing goaltenders.

If presume Crosby is a natural 15% shooter (which is very high, but then, he’s also very talented) and he takes the same number of shots this year as he did last year, he would tally about 45 goals against goaltenders comparable to what he faced in 09-10. If the new goal pads result in 1% more shots going in, he would add 3 more goals, putting him at 48.

So if the changes to new form-fitting goaltender equipment is as effective as the GMs intend it to be, I don’t think its unreasonable to suspect Crosby could be in the neighborhood of 50 goals.

I am a hockey fan first, and a Caps fan second.

by iwearstripes on Sep 2, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions  

This post cries out for another poll!

I could buy, if he changed his approach/stick/voodoo doll/pregame pixie dust last year, that he might score above his career norm but definitely not 50 goals again.

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by Dominik on Sep 2, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I should have included a poll. I was pressed for time

by Hawerchuk on Sep 2, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

So where are folks setting the over/under for the number of goals that wins the Richard next year?

Using the 3/2/1 weighting from the last couple of content posts, you arrive at 55, but that 65 goal year at the 1 weight is a pretty significant outlier. 53 seems more reasonable to me, simply because of the volume of shots required to hit 55+ goals at any kind of reasonable shooting percentage.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful" George E.P. Box

by Knee high to a duck on Sep 2, 2010 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Well..if you sum all 50 goal seasons through the years with SOG data available link here, you come up with an average of 18.6% shooting percentage, a rate requiring just 269 SOG to achieve. Nobody in this era has achieved both of those levels

Post-lockout, comes down to an average of 15% for all 50 goal seasons, or 333 shots. Only two people have hit that two years in a row, Ovechkin and Parise.

The non-Ovechkins 16.3%, 307 shots. That gives us Ovechkin, Parise, Carter, and Zetterberg able to launch that many.

All that said, as long as #8 is in the league launching 360+ shots a year, 50 will get cracked. So 53 is probably reasonable.
Or, I agree. That would’ve been shorter I suppose.

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by George E. Ays on Sep 2, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

That 5on5 shot site is useful, I’d forgotten you post that stuff.

The EV shot rate did go up quite a bit, from just under 8 shots per 60 to just under 10 shots per 60. Only as accurate as the data you used of course, but Crosby took a ton more wrist shots from far out. That’s obviously a conscious decision, I don’t know how many goals he’s going to give his team (likely bet is zero) but certainly he’ll pick up a few extra in his goals column.

Not a consistent 12 surely, that’s just the outer marker and a bit off the rails if you ask me. He won’t repeat that, not without extenuating circumstances or an unforeseen developmental jump (which, let’s be honest, it happens but Crosby’s already so good at the things that normally only come with experience, how much more does he really have to go?).

by R O on Sep 3, 2010 1:07 AM EDT reply actions  

50 is a decent possibility

I admit that the odds are against Sidney scoring 50 again, but it’s still a decent possibility. He’d have to stay healthy, of course, but it’s not unusual for players to have legitimate spikes in their scoring abilities up to age 23.

I did comps of my own. It uses current season, previous season, career totals, and adjust all stats to 2009-10 scoring levels.

Of the 8 matches with a simscore of 2 or less (2 is my arbitrary definition of what constitutes “similar”), 3 of them scored an adjusted 50+: Jari Jurri 1984, Jaromir Jagr 1995 and Mario 1987.

Look at normalized Mario vs 1-year-older normalized Sidney:
Mario 20 – 79 33 68 101 vs Sidney 21 – 77 32 68 100
Mario 21 – 63 41 42 83 vs Sidney 22 – 81 51 58 109

When he was 22, Mario had normalized scoring of 52 goals and 76 assists in 77 games.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t bet a dime on this, I’m just saying there is precedent.

by Rob Vollman on Sep 4, 2010 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

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