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Feudin' with Hockey's Murray Chass

Fun With Stu Hackel

Stu Hackel is a hockey writer for Sports Illustrated and the New York Times. Up until Feburary 8th I had NOT A CLUE who he was, or if he had any relevance to the sport of Hockey and the NHL. After reading about a dozen or so of his articles, I pretty much now know why. He's a fine writer, don't get me wrong, and when he does legwork (such as some works on concussions and such) it turns out ok; but that doesn't mean the other words he puts down on paper aren't DUMB.

On Wednesday Hack-el posted a write-up regarding which stats STUART thought the NHL should start keeping. This was promptly responded to by Gabriel Desjardins, the creator of the "advanced" NHL stats site behindthenet.ca and its subsequent blog, arcticicehockey.com. Here's what Gabe concluded about Stu's MAGICAL ideas on stats:

"So what do we have overall? Stu wants nine stats recorded. Four of them are already available on behindthenet.ca. A proxy is recorded for two others. Two others are available on ESPN and could be hacked together in a matter of minutes. The last one is of dubious value.

I guess there's only one thing I think Stu Hackel "ought" to do: run a search on the googles for the stats you want and see if they exist." - Gabriel Desjardins (2/8/12)

HAHAHA. When I saw this, I literally had to contain myself at an absolutely BRUTAL dinner for possible interns, and I could not wait to comment when I got home. Below is a picture and my comment, along with an ORNERY response from none other than the Stu-man himself:

Screenshot20120209at952_medium

/learnstoreadmorecloselyovernight

In light of this response, I have decided to imitate one of my favorite weekly articles on the Internet(s), Fun With Peter King by Drew Magary (latest here). Let's give it a run, SHALL WE? (Bold text denotes Stu's writing from the article itself)

Star-divide

By its nature, hockey is not a game that is easily reducible to numbers.

Even though numbers are just counting, and that's how we keep score to see whom wins. NERDS NEED NOT APPLY.

Stats not only have their downside on the entertainment front, they can mislead about a player's real value.

Yes, because by adding more information to a conversation about a player with Stu outside of "he LOOKED fast" or "WHAT a pair of calves on that guy" puts Stuuuu to sleep faster than three chardonnays and TBS movie re-run on a Saturday night.

And sometimes numbers lie

I feel so bad for numbers and stats at this point. First they're boring and now they LIE?? These numbers are complete losers.

There are a few dedicated fans who compile all sorts of exotic stats on their own apart from the ones the league keeps

Wait a second... we have stats that are considered EXOTIC now? And here so far I thought stats were:

1) Not easily applied to Hockey

2) Boring

3) MISLEADING LYING BASTARD CHILDREN

And yes, these crazy stat keepers are able to watch every EXOTIC minute of every EXOTIC game. It's actually a secret government project in the US, meant to keep a stigma around the NHL that some of its fans are WEIRD; therefore keeping the league in the #4 position amongst pro sports.

I noticed recently that the site allows fans to look back at what the league standings were at any point during the season.

I'm actually excited to use this after the season to show Wild fans how their team went from First place to out-of-the-god-damn-playoffs while every logical person that understands luck in hockey told them so when they didn't want to believe it. UTTERLY SHOCKING that Backstrom/Harding (who are good goalies) couldn't keep up an unrealistic ~.945 save percentage the whole season. Who could interpret numbers this UNTRUSTWORTHY?

Otherwise this "statistic," which is actually just archiving a web page on a site, is completely fucking useless.

It's interesting to root around in those charts and uncover what's there, especially the full play-by-play of a game with tons of raw material. Here's the running sheet from the Coyotes' win over the Red Wings on Monday night. You'll find one for every game on the home pages of team websites, among the reports in the box with the last result. And you can see a more geographic representation of each game's action in the Ice Tracker.

YOU'RE GETTING WARMER, STEWIE. Where could all these EXOTIC stats come from, despite the NHL producing so much "raw material" for every game?

Still, while many stats are compiled, and as dry as they can make the game, there are some numbers I'd like to see the league track:

Despite the fact that Super Stu thinks stats + hockey = dryness like eating six saltines in a minute, he'll go on to waste moments of your life you will never get back with 752 words on stats that have already been created and are being/have been used inside of Front Offices across the league. I smell INNOVATION.

/skipstobest(worst)partoftheideas

6. Time of Possesion: ... You'll still get a good handle on which teams are more skilled than others, and a team with a relatively low T.O.P. stat but lots of wins will be revealed as one that knows how to play well without the puck.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. As a hockey player since 4 years old I would NEVER want to be described as knowing "how to play well without the puck." Why? Because that means you suck. Still why?

A) By being good without the puck simply means you're probably in the right position. Congrats on NOT BEING A DUMBASS.

B) Because if you're described as being good without the puck, you most likely SUCK with the puck.

Oh and by the way, why is this sentence by the Stu-meister so HORRIBLY wrong? Well, the Wild have been one of the absolute WORST possession teams in the NHL all year long, even during their (premature) run for the Presidents Trophy! What happened? Backstrom/Harding fell back to earth, and the team went with them. OOPS.

/skipsrestofdipshitideas

So there you go: After starting this post complaining about how stats can take the fun and passion out of the game, I proposed a bunch of new ones.

Fuckin' right Stu! But wouldn't the numbers be BORING and DRY and MISLEADING LIARS if they started tracking them?

But I think these would actually add to our understanding of the sport.

JESUS CHRISTMAS. I give up.

By Rob and JMac

Comment 16 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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I still think the worst part is him calling for the NHL to track a stat

That is readily available on the official website (Missed Shots)

by truck on Feb 10, 2012 9:27 AM EST reply actions   3 recs

To be fair to the Wild, they had a career AHLer playing on their first line at one point (when they played the Leafs) due to an outrageous number of concurrent injuries.

Follow me on twitter @CoolJ90

by CoolJ90 on Feb 10, 2012 9:37 AM EST reply actions  

Another shame. I happen to think Rob L is one of the few good BlueshirtBanter contributors, but this is not worthy of him, or the BehindtheNet crew. Its one thing to pick apart someone for being out of touch, or downright incorrect, but this is just snark for snark’s sake.

I always assumed the goal of the BTN contributors and advanced stats promoters was to find a way to broaden the media discussion and fan understanding of the metrics that influence and effect hockey games. This type of post hurts that cause.

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo
http://twitter.com/PopsTwitTar

by poploser on Feb 10, 2012 9:58 AM EST reply actions  

Obviously, I disagree. One of our goals has always been to call out lazy “journalism” from our holy writers. There are tons of people augmenting the NHL’s stats, but to that, Stu Hackel says “NOT INVENTED HERE, DOES NOT COUNT

Aside from discussing stats with the 23 people on the internet who care about them, my personal goal has always been to influence front offices and agents. Everyone has always assumed that I want to influence low-information fans and knuckle-dragging members of the media. That would be a very frustrating occupation and I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone.

by Hawerchuk on Feb 10, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Observe, for instance

the life of “Stat Nerd Sunday” over at Puck Daddy (though a lot of that stuff was pretty bad for both stats and non-stats crowds).

"You can't polish a turd." -- George Carlin

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

by Bettman's Nightmare on Feb 10, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Fun with assumptions

The second part of your comment answered the first. I received enough negative feedback from the advanced stats crowd about the authorship to reconsider the feature. It’s not done; just re-casting.

by Wyshynski on Feb 11, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

All for calling out lazy journalism. Doing it in a way that insults people’s names districts from the cause, imo. And if you want to be taken seriously by the people you say you want to influence, I don’t think throwing up posts that come across as juvenile helps you toward that goal. Of course, I am someone who’s spent the better part of the last 10 years making fun of Glen Sather in a number of personally insulting ways, so what do I know.

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo
http://twitter.com/PopsTwitTar

by poploser on Feb 10, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

My experiences inside NHL organizations lead me to believe otherwise. I borrowed a desk one time from a senior scout – someone had written over the title on his business card with “Vice-President of Sucking D**k”. etc…

by Hawerchuk on Feb 10, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably was Mike Barnett.

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo
http://twitter.com/PopsTwitTar

by poploser on Feb 10, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

Even if he is only limiting “stats that are kept by the NHL” to “things I can find in twenty seconds of perusing their website” shouldn’t cap hit/contract length be number one on his list? There aren’t many stats more important than that I would think. Of course it doesn’t appear that logic is necessarily this dude’s forte.

by The Neutral on Feb 10, 2012 1:46 PM EST reply actions  

I guess Capgeek and NHLnumbers have done too good a job on that?

by Hawerchuk on Feb 10, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess when Steve Tambellini uses a site for analysis it’s pretty definitively broken into the mainstream . Unfortunately that means we’ll have to wait until scenes of Ken Holland impatiently waiting for his timeonice.com scripts to load surface on the next season of 24/7.

by The Neutral on Feb 10, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

More on this?

I have to assume this post is here merely to gather more site hits for this non-feud/non-story. Stu Hackel wants the NHL to track a bunch of stats that they do not currently track, and I believe he admits in his replies that he got one (or two?) of them wrong. What is the story? Don’t all of us want the NHL to officially track these stats as well?

by Buddy Grant on Feb 10, 2012 5:06 PM EST reply actions  

No, I believe Rob thinks Hackel is a dick, and rightly so, after Hackel told him (and me) to “learn read [sic]”. As for “hits”. haha. You must not understand that we are volunteer bloggers and as such do not benefit from “hits”.

Also, as I pointed out, 5 out of the 9 stats he wants are available on behindthenet.ca. (Or proxies of these stats.) Two others were discussed on this site and generally deemed pointless by readers (hit posts and 6-on-5 time.) Two others are on ESPN. 100% of what he’s asking for is always available. NHL.com doesn’t need to do it.

by Hawerchuk on Feb 10, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

But journalism is hard when you aren’t getting everything spoon-fed from an authority.

by Roke on Feb 10, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

To clafiry

I don’t think he’s a dick – he has done nothing to me personally. What this (very SARCASTIC) article conveys is the god damn laziness by certain members of mainstream media who get paid HANDSOMELY and yet choose to not do any research for some of their work (such as Peter King for the NFL/SI). I would absolutely kill for someone to pay me to write about hockey. If I want someone’s personal thoughts on a topic, I’ll ask them at the bar, not at their place of occupation.

by Rob L on Feb 11, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

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