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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

Moneyball and Moneypuck

I went to see Moneyball on Wednesday, and even though I was predisposed to liking it, it was better than I expected. But it still had to make the story much more black-and-white than it really was - on the dark side, you had the elderly scouts who said they wouldn't sign a guy with an ugly girlfriend because it showed he "lacked confidence", and on the other side, you had pre-weight loss Jonah Hill really getting into playing the part of a Yalie nerdlinger. Reality, as usual, is much more complex, but the long-and-short of it is that a lot more guys who look like Jonah Hill have been allowed into baseball's club over the last few years as teams look for any edge to win.

If you read James Mirtle's article today, you'll see that professional hockey is in a different place right now. But the great irony is that hockey embraced advanced statistics a long time ago - the Montreal Canadiens invented +/- long before Dallas Mavericks Director of Analytics Roland Beech introduced it to the NBA; when Jim Corsi was still a teenager, Harry Sinden was using what ultimately became the "Corsi Number" to evaluate Team Canada when they played against the Russians. But scoring chances are the best example: they've been collected by coaching staffs and TV crews perhaps since the dawn of time. Unlike in baseball, where it took an outsider like Bill James to change the way insiders thought, in hockey, insiders already think about the right things - they just haven't taken the next logical step and started collecting all the data they need to evaluate players outside of their own organization. (Baseball's revolution came from more and better data, not more and better regression analysis.) But as you can see from the article, there are lots of teams that are dipping their toes into this sphere, so it's only a matter of time before some team finds a bit of that "Moneypuck" advantage.

One last note on the Moneyball movie - and I'm not giving anything away here...It's funny that an over-arching theme is that Billy Beane is going to get fired. First of all, GMs almost never get fired, and certainly not in the season after they win 102 games. It is never mentioned in the movie, but Beane was coming off three-straight successful seasons, and had taken the team from well below .500 to serious contention. The Giants let Brian Sabean muddle through five consecutive losing seasons and still renewed his contract, so there's no way Oakland's owner was going to get rid of the guy who was winning within the confines of his revenues.

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I understood some of the issues teams may have had with some of the stats. Hockey is much more complex than baseball, and, thus, requires for time and effort. It is currently in its infancy, but just like sabermetrics, it will grow as more and more data pours in. Eventually, “hockeymetrics” will become commonplace in the NHL, and it interests me.

I want to see Moneyball.

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 24, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

*requires more time and effort

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

by Frag on Sep 24, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Related: Jason Whitlock is not a fan

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Sep 24, 2011 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

you forgot to add "of common sense"

I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter

by fetch9 on Sep 24, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can understand if you think stats are taking the fun out of the game—that’s an opinion—but he sounds like he’s equating that with stats not belonging in the game or not being able to describe the game with a pretty good degree of accuracy, which is absolutely false. And he’s talking about baseball, too.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Sep 24, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am the exact opposite

hence me saying he is not a fan of common sense

I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter

by fetch9 on Sep 24, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we’re in agreement. Just saying some people don’t like numbers, just like I don’t like writing long papers for class, so I can respect that stance.

Red Line Station and @RedArmyLine, featuring coverage of the most frustrating team in the NHL
I believe in next year.

by red army line on Sep 24, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jason Whitlock never played the game. Why should we listen to him?

by Hawerchuk on Sep 25, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

From an Oakland A's fan - From Oakland.

The movie follows a little bit more than just the 2002 season… it kinda goes back to Billy Beane as the A’s assistant GM Sandy Alderson’s techniques after the 1995 death of Walter Haas Jr… who actually had money, and spent a lot of it on players – hence how the A’s were so insanely good from the mid 80’s through the early/mid-90’s…

During this time, when payroll was cut, beane and alderson had to figure out what the fuck to do, and this whole thing was sorta the point of the backstory of Beane maybe getting fired, because the A’s were godawful for a few years, and Alderson actually did leave the A’s giving Beane his current post. He wasn’t fired or anything, but due to a lot of conflict with Hoffman and Schott, there was a bit of speculation during those years that the A’s might go clean-slate on the Front Office… Not quite as much as there was in the film, but… they had to find drama SOMEWHERE…

They also don’t mention much on the pitching side of the A’s, but thats probably because Moneyball didnt focus on the Hudson-Mulder-Zito big-3 combo that was probably the most gnarly set of staff aces any team had had in a while up until your current Phillies staff… and yet they were being paid jack squat AND all were developed by the A’s unlike this Phillies staff.

For years, the A’s had one of the cheapest teams in the league, and yet were always winning division titles, or at least competing for them, and giving New York/Boston some HARD runs for their money…

Since 2006, the A’s have pretty much stunk – mostly because of extremely bad luck – they’ve used the DL like 12-15% more than any other team within that span. You cant win if half your team is on the 60 day DL all the time… its been brutal to watch.

The A’s have actually been a really good team this year, but have lost many close games to teams they should never have any business losing to – yet then they go and put up ridiculous 14 run games against Boston and New York. What the hell…

I’m just hoping things come together for them next year, they can grab a few good free agents this offseason, and actually make a playoff run again like they should…

Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."

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by SeanCrosby87 on Sep 26, 2011 9:10 AM EDT reply actions  

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