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Claude Noel Doesn't Plan on Having "Traditional" 3rd Line

Big news for those of you wondering how the Winnipeg forward lines are going to play out.  Sara Orlesky tweeted today that Claude Noel stated that the Jets are going to try rolling three "scoring" lines rather than having your traditional 3rd checking line.  The running joke, of course, will be, "You mean, we had two scoring lines?"  

Let's speculate a bit on what this means.

Star-divide

Each coach, when joining their team, must be aware of his personnel, their capabilities, and their strengths and weaknesses.  In Winnipeg's case, we know that our top two lines are not high-scoring.  Let's have a look at the likely top 2 lines going into the season:

1st

Andrew Ladd --- Bryan Little --- Blake Wheeler

2nd

Evander Kane --- Alexander Burmistrov --- Nik Antropov

The speculation even going into the summer was that Burmistrov would move into the second line centre position this year, and Antropov's big body and experience on the wing combined with Kane's shooting and Burmistrov's attention to his own zone make sense (enough to appear as the 2nd line at Jets.Nhl.com).  But, before the signing of Kyle Wellwood, the 3rd line looked very unlikely to be a "scoring line."

3rd

Tanner Glass --- Jim Slater --- Eric Fehr

There was also the possibility that it would be Tim Stapleton on the 3rd line, though I hadn't heard any rumor of this before (it just shows up on the Jets site).  So:

3rd

Tanner Glass --- Tim Stapleton --- Eric Fehr

That makes a bit more sense as a "scoring line," with Glass as a sort of "disrupting force" for play along the boards.  Now, add a dash of Wellwood:

3rd

Tanner Glass --- Kyle Wellwood --- Eric Fehr

I kind of like the look of this line, for the same reasons that I kind of liked Glass-Stapleton-Fehr; you have one guy who engages physically along the boards, and is fast enough to keep up with play, and two guys who very well could see additional time on the powerplay together.  This could very likely end up with Tim Stapleton in the AHL, particularly if Noel's intention is to make the 4th line a physical line.  If so, the 4th line could look like this:

4th

David Koci --- Patrice Cormier --- Chris Thorburn

I don't think you invite Koci to a "tryout" if you didn't want to just plug him in to fit some kind of goon role.  Those who have speculated that he could play defence are not realizing that we already have 7 NHL level defencemen, and a bunch of guys knocking on the door (Paul Postma, Arturs Kulda, Brett Festerling, Mark Flood, Derek Meech).  As for Thorburn, I think his efforts in physicality and shot-blocking mask a guy who probably more of an AHL player...which is all the more reason we shouldn't be surprised if Spencer Machacek challenges for that 4th line RW spot.  He's a bit more skilled player, and can basically do all the other things that Thorburn does with less truculence (Koci will apparently "take care" of that).  Cormier and hopefully Koci should also feel like AHLers are breathing down their necks, as Jason Gregoire is bound to get a handful of NHL games next year, Ben Maxwell too.  Jim Slater also potentially fits into this equation.

It's also worth speculating what the powerplay lines will look like.  Wheeler wasn't really used as a powerplay guy last year (Ladd and Little were teamed up with Antropov), and it's very possible that he ends up in the same boat, particularly with Fehr on-board.  Fehr and Wellwood are the kinds of guys you like on the powerplay, the former for his shooting and the latter for his playmaking.  The way I see it:

1st PP

Andrew Ladd --- Bryan Little --- Nik Antropov

2nd PP

Evander Kane --- Kyle Wellwood --- Eric Fehr

Obviously, this is not an elite lineup, but at the same time you're putting players on the ice according to their strengths.  

Back to this issue of not having the traditional 3rd.  In what kind of scenario would this make sense?  Most scenarios, actually, but I digress.  Technically, our 1st line has all the qualities of a shutdown 3rd line, with more offence.  Appropriately, they will be taking the toughest minutes, against the opposing top lines.  Should Burmistrov develop in his second season, our 2nd line should matchup pretty well to opposing 2nd lines in the Southeast Division.  The big question will be whether our 3rd scoring line will be able to take advantage of a checking 3rd line, which is typically slower and less skilled with the puck, yet can win battles along the boards.  The Philadelphia Flyers have been able to use this formula with some success, but their personnel was more talented than Winnipeg's.  They also had a good defensive corps to back them up.  Another big question is who can take up the slack if Fehr gets hurt - would we be able to roll three scoring lines then?  The call-up would almost have to be Tim Stapleton, who has experience on the wing.

I like Claude Noel's idea because it seems to be well aware of who he has to work with, but the irony is that he also stated his concern about goals-against and the penalty kill.  Three scoring lines is well and good if you're the Flyers with some solid D, but we don't have that.  We have basically the same guys on defence that we had last year, so unless the team makes bold moves and eats some contract I have my doubts that any of those issues could get substantially better except maybe the penalty kill, where Zach Bogosian was given increased responsibility and did league-average.

Either way, interesting development on the team front.  

Poll
How do you think the "3 scoring lines" plan plays out for the Jets?
Generates a lot of offence, defence won't be compromised too much, Noel for Jack Adams
24 votes
Generates a lot of offence, defence will be Swiss cheese
21 votes
Doesn't generate offence, defence won't be compromised too much
33 votes
Doesn't generate offence, defence will be Swiss cheese, build a bomb shelter
40 votes

118 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 15 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Any thought of Antropov playing Centre? He has in the past leaving Little, Burmistrov and Antropov for our lines? Unlikely given the signing of Wellwood, but I am not a fan of Wellwood. Lazy and no intention of ever playing defence.

I think Antropov had some time on the point in PP situations when he was in Toronto. It gives the Jets a chance to add Wheeler to the mix on the PP.

Also, any news of Klingberg having any chance to make the team?

by Shaker on Sep 17, 2011 5:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Klingberg's chances of making the team are virtually zero

As for Antropov, he’s never been an ideal centre, largely due to his faceoff ability. Now, Burmistrov didn’t do too awesome either, but his age suggests he could improve (Antropov’s been bad at faceoffs and played wing most of his career), and Burmi’s speed makes him a more-effective backchecker. Burmi’s also more of a playmaker, so if he can improve this year overall he’s the better fit. That said, if he stumbles, there might be a shuffle.

I have trouble seeing the Jets bump down either Enstrom or Byfuglien to second PP unit to give Antropov a spot on the point. They could potentially Antropov on point for the second PP unit, but I think part of the reasoning was they want his big body parked in front of the net.

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.

by Bettman's Nightmare on Sep 17, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is quite interesting in general, not just for the Jets.

You mention the Flyers, Detroit is another example of this. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the two highest forwards on the team (>40 GP) in both Corsi QoC and Corsi Rel QoC. They have the same idea with defensemen – Lidström tops the D list.

I could certainly be convinced otherwise, but intuitively I think it’s a good move for teams with elite top lines and bad for teams that aren’t good at the top. I think it’s good for Detroit, and last-year’s Flyers, because they are able to dominate with that top unit. If you can not only slow down their most productive line but put them on their heels, that gives you a huge edge.

For the Jets it seems like it would be the opposite. If the top line is out there swimming upstream, you will need a lot more scoring from that third line to make up for it.

Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines

by JaredL on Sep 17, 2011 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Completely agree

Some of the advantage of having our offensive-minded 3rd line match up against one that’s a bit worse offensively will be muted by the lesser TOI they receive.

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.

by Bettman's Nightmare on Sep 18, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I look at this and think: Scheifele

Because this might very well create a spot for him. And unlike certain Swedish twins he knows how to backcheck so the absence of a checking line wouldn’t be all that bad

In Canada our balls are bigger

by canadian texan on Sep 18, 2011 2:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Probably not for a couple of years

If he looks a bit raw, the Jets won’t rush him. They don’t want to accelerate his contract status (read: if he’s in the NHL, his bargain entry-level contract will be on the clock). No need to rush him.

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.

by Bettman's Nightmare on Sep 18, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup

i would have to say it’s not necessarily the most desirable option, but i feel that Scheifele stands to grow just as much here as he would back in Barrie. Part of me does want to see him dominate at the WJC tourney in December though. But I still think he can provide an immediate positive impact to the team that would not be detrimental to his progression

In Canada our balls are bigger

by canadian texan on Sep 19, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If this means a call up for anybody...

Jason Gregoire comes to mind first.

I don’t know if he will make the squad, but at this point he seems to offer a lot of the same things as Scheifele (aside from size) plus he is older withoug money concerns.

by truck on Sep 19, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

true enough

i’ve already penciled him in, as he has both the maturity and, from what i’ve seen thus far, “the goods” to make it at the elite level

In Canada our balls are bigger

by canadian texan on Sep 19, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hinges on the Little-Ladd-Wheeler line

We talked about this a bit in an article for the MSP Jets Annual. Ladd, Little and Wheeler seem capable of playing tough comp, and doing OK. They’re not going dominate like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but they may be able to hold their own. If they can do that, then the 2nd and 3rd lines get a break.

However, just saying “we’re going to play 3 offensive lines” implies that you have a line capable of surviving a power-vs-power matchup. I’m assuming Noel believes LLW can do that.

Ryan Popilchak

Matchsticks & Gasoline, Artic Ice Hockey, &Hockey Prospectus. My twitter handle is @sprtopinionated

by SO_RyanP on Sep 18, 2011 11:03 PM EDT reply actions  

My hunch

Is that they can, but you’ll see in their numbers that it will hurt them a bit offensively. It’s actually part of the reason I think Kane can make a 20-point jump this year: he’s not necessarily going to face top lines.

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.

by Bettman's Nightmare on Sep 18, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can I buy the MSP Jets at newstands and if so where? I ordered the Flyer one online and it is very good.

by Shaker on Sep 19, 2011 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's on newsstands in Winnipeg

But you can also order it online here.

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.

by Bettman's Nightmare on Sep 19, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any idea what chains. I stopped at a few places today and I couldn’t find it.

by Shaker on Sep 19, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hit up McNally Robinson, they’re supposed to have it.

Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey

Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.

by Bettman's Nightmare on Sep 19, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

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