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Around SBN: Seahawks Trade for TE Kellen Winslow

Buster Posey - It's Not Baseball

[Aside: here is the most pathetic defense of running over the catcher I can imagine, which prompted me to write this piece.]

Every sport institutionalizes things that would make no sense in any other sport. 

Star-divide

Could you imagine modern football players wearing only punter facemasks - or no facemasks at all - and then pulling their helmets off and fighting on the field?  The same thing is defended as part of the game of hockey.

Could you imagine hockey players constantly diving whenever an opposing player even touches them in the offensive zone and having sportscasters describe "selling" a dive as an important skill?  But this "is" soccer.

How about getting in your opponent's face, yelling and screaming and beating your chest after you score?  You'd get a penalty in football, and start a fight in hockey or baseball.  In basketball, we see it all the time.

But it seems to me that there's some sense in these sports - when a hockey player is seriously injured in a fight or injures an eye due to an errant stick, people reconsider what's "hockey."  Sixty years ago, no goalie wore a facemask; thirty years ago, the players fought mandatory helmets; to this day, there are restrictions even on half face shields...And yet we see players wearing full face shields at most levels of hockey (I have all my teeth) and we even see injured players wearing them in the NHL.  It's a slow road, and the Manny Malhotra and Bryan Berard injuries didn't shock the system into a sea change.

Baseball, on the other hand, has institutionalized cheap shots.  Think about it - in the NFL, can you intentionally run over the punter after he kicks the ball?  Can you drill a kick returner when he's calling for a fair catch?  Can you crush the quarterback when he doesn't have the ball?  In hockey, can you run the goalie?  Can you get a full head of steam and hit a guy who doesn't have the puck?  You *could* do all over these things, but they're not just penalties, they're so far outside the bounds of acceptable behavior that you'd either get kicked out of the game and possibly suspended or get beaten up by your opponent.

But when Scott Cousins took out Buster Posey at the plate, like so many runners have before, did his teammates express any sense of outrage?  Did Miguel Tejada or Aubrey Huff come charging down the line and start pounding on Cousins?  Not a chance - in the article I linked to, Freddy Sanchez, one of Posey's teammates, said it was "a clean play."  The only guy who seems to want revenge is Giants' broadcaster Mike Krukow, who says he would throw at Cousins the next time the GIants play the Marlins.

Which is, of course, another one of baseball's institutionalized cheap shots.

The only defense we see of both of these idiotic plays is that "it's baseball."  Well, it used to be "baseball" to spike your opponents every time you slid into a base, or even as you passed them on the basepaths.  It used to be "football" to grab your opponent's facemask when you tackled him.  How long would a defensive back last today if he played like that? (Seriously, watch the video in the previous link.  Dick "Night Train" Lane is unbelievable.)

Something "is" part of a sport only until the day that it's not.  And allowing players to deliberately injure each other is something that shouldn't be part of any sport.

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I'm not a baseball guy

Is the problem allowing the baserunner to run over the catcher, or does it start with allowing the catcher to interfere with the runner’s path to the plate? This never happens at 1st, 2nd or 3rd – although I’m not a fan of slides in the ‘general direction’ of 2nd that aim to take out the shortstop’s knees.

I don’t intend to blame the victim here. As you emphasize, this is a foolish play that has been institutionalized by baseball.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on May 27, 2011 8:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I don’t know, Swisher got Nishioka pretty good this year.

Does he call it Luongo underwear?

Co-Manager at Behind the Net

by Bettman's Nightmare on May 27, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

The latter.

You’re correct, the latter is the issue – particularly in that catchers are allowed to do so even without the ball.

Removing the latter would eliminate the need for the former.

Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.

by garik16 on May 27, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Although, now that I’ve seen the video, Posey wasn’t blocking the plate in this instance. Cousins went out of his way to smash him – I can see why Hawerchuk made the ‘cheap shot’ comparisons.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on May 27, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're right - its ridiculous that the catcher is allowed to block the path to the base.

Its interference if you do it halfway between the bases, it should be interference if you do it at the base.

by TMS on Jun 4, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's about respect

In any sport you need to have respect for the sport, and your fellow competitors. After all, you’re all in it together – how does having a talented young catcher on the shelf help the league or the sport in any way?

When you injure your opponents – either deliberately or through negligence – you’re hurting your sport. Same thing when you embarrass or humiliate them.

by Rob Vollman on May 27, 2011 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes I’ve said that before as well – some players have a lack of respect for each other. Considering one day they may very well be playing on the same team, you would think all players would take it upon themselves to not deliberately injure each other. Play the game yes, as best as you can definitely, but don’t go out of your way to injure another.

GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)

by Angy on May 27, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ehh you're missing the point.

People like violence. They always have and always will. Where they go wrong is in trying to force it in where it doesn’t happen naturally. That’s the great thing about boxing and MMA. They’re trying to kick each other’s ass and there’s no ambiguity about it.

My most despised play in hockey is the late hit or ‘finishing the check’ where a guy hits the puck carrier a good half second after he’s passed off the puck (a half second is a long time in hockey) and the guy who just got rid of the puck has every right and every reason not to expect to get hit and the other guy just blasts him, totally unsuspecting. Invariably the broadcasters commend the guy who made the dirty hit saying he ‘finished his check’ and blame the guy who got cheap-shotted saying he wasn’t ‘aware at all times’. It just makes my blood boil.

by TMS on Jun 4, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Disturbing

The most disturbing thing about basketball I see is when a player has already dribbled and he doesn’t have a shot, so he jumps up to pretend to shoot and intentionally pushes his arm against the defender’s arm to make it look like a foul. AND THEY ALWAYS CALL IT A FOUL!

Excuse me, is that your hockey stick in your hands? Let me just run over it, intentionally trip myself, fall down loudly and complain that you tripped me!

"Though we do run the risk of one of the pucks generating human-like emotions, and yearning for a better life outside of its cold, violent existence…" -Ben

by ThrashersRecaps on May 27, 2011 10:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Excuse me, is that your hockey stick in your hands? Let me just run over it, intentionally trip myself, fall down loudly and complain that you tripped me!

AKA The Kesler Maneuver

Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on May 31, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Could you imagine hockey players constantly diving whenever an opposing player even touches them in the offensive zone and having sportscasters describe “selling” a dive as an important skill?

No need to imagine it, the Canucks have made it part of their game plan.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on May 27, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

First time I’ve laughed in days. :)

GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)

by Angy on May 27, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Joe Thornton Dive

Best of this year’s playoffs.

by SJKel on May 27, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was wondering when that was going to come out

"Playin hurt, baby that don't faze me. I don't got time for pain. The only pain I've got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is!"

"You can't come in my kitchen, kick my dog, and take a box full of ballpoints! Your ass must be crazy!"

by Semi_Colon on May 29, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Home Plate v. 2nd and 3rd base

My understanding (and I haven’t played serious competitive baseball at an adult level, but enough high level youth and softball to be close enough) is the big difference is that you don’t have to stay on home plate, whereas at 2nd and 3rd you can be out if you stop touching the base. This means that if a fielder is in a position to tag the guy at 2nd or 3rd and he comes charging in, you just give him the old “ole” and wait until he goes off the bag and then tag him. It’s the reason that players slide into those bases.

At home plate, as soon as he touches is he is safe so he has no reason to slide or hold up to stay on the base. This is why the catcher “blocks” the plate as well, it is very difficult to get the tag on the guy as he can just run around you and touch the plate.

While I agree with the sentiment of this post, I would be curious what rule change would be proposed to alleviate the problem without essentially chaning the play at the plate to give the catcher a major advantage over the runner.

by CalTach on May 27, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

They’ve done two things at lower levels of baseball – institute a commit line (about 10 feet from home plate) where once the runner crosses it, we get a force play at the plate. The other one is the safebase. There’s zero reason that running over a catcher and ending his career should be part of baseball.

by Hawerchuk on May 27, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Many thanks for posting this! I don’t get follow other North American leagues besides NHL, but I really enjoyed reading this. Very interesting stuff!

Hockey fan, stats nut, webmaster of QuantHockey.com
Twitter: @QuantHockey

by QuantHockey on May 27, 2011 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Could you imagine Football settling a tie game with field goals, or basketball with free throw contests? yet in hockey we settle it with a shootout because that’s the way it’s always* been done.

*always = since 2005

Avalanche Shutouts are a powerful Aphrodisiac
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on May 31, 2011 10:44 AM EDT reply actions  

Baseball has football envy.

They want to maintain some contact, some danger and violence in baseball.

I agree completely with you – the play at the plate – and also the play at 2nd base where the runner slides in such a way that has absolutely nothing to do with getting to the base as soon as he can – are ridiculous contrivances, kept in the game only to keep some violence in the game so that football fans can’t make fun of baseball for being a wimpy sport. Its really quite ridiculous but lots of people think this way. Before my hockey game last night one of my teammates was saying ‘soccer is such a gay sport’. I’m not a huge soccer fan but I recognize that its a great sport even if it doesn’t have enough scoring to suit me. I finally had enough and I said to him ‘do you think it makes you sound cool to say that soccer is a gay sport? Because it doesn’t. It just makes you sound like a meat head idiot’. But that’s the mentality the we’re dealing with and its the same mentality that wants to keep home plate collisions in baseball.

by TMS on Jun 4, 2011 1:54 AM EDT reply actions  

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