The Flyers Need a D-man? The Jets Have a Few...
by arby_18 on Dec 16, 2011 6:23 PM EST
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PrintWith the unfortunate news about Chris Pronger being done for the regular season AND playoffs, Philadelphia Flyers GM Paul Holmgren has a large hole to fill on his back-end. The Flyers Captain was obviously a major part of how that team was put together, but with his severe concussion troubles keeping out of action (maybe for good), Holmgren has stated that he has contacted 29 other teams for defensive help. This got me thinking about the Jets and our own defensive situation, and I started thinking that perhaps there could be a match here. Are the Winnipeg Jets one of the teams that could help the Flyers attempt to fill the void left by Pronger while also benefitting their own blue-line situation?
The Winnipeg Jets blue-line has been decimated by injuries this season, as they have already deployed 12 different players on the backend this season. The Jets started the season with Dustin Byfuglien, Tobias Enstrom, Zach Bogosian, Mark Stuart, Johnny Oduya, Ron Hainsey, Randy Jones and Derek Meech as their "top-8" so to speak. However, with Enstrom, Hainsey, Jones and Meech all missing extended periods of time, it was necessary to bring up Mark Flood and Arturs Kulda from the AHL, and both have been very impressive. Paul Postma and Brett Festerling also saw some time with the Jets. But now some healthy bodies are beginning to return, and the question arises: What do we do with all of the d-men?
As it stands right now, Randy Jones apparently injured himself again and appears to be back on the IR, joining Derek Meech (knee) and Tobias Enstrom (collarbone) on the shelf. Ron Hainsey (foot) returned two games ago and has been very good, but his return forced the Jets to put Kulda on waivers. I held my breath while waiting to see if he would clear waivers, and much to my delight he did. However, with Enstrom apparently being cleared to return as early as tomorrow versus the Ducks, we now have a glut of d-men, and this is before you even count Jones and Meech.
Why don't we just put Mark Flood on waivers and send him down to St. John's? Well, Coach Noel really likes Flood, as he coached him last year in the AHL while with the Manitoba Moose, and Flood has been very good since being called up. Noel even stated in a media scrum that he would be concerned about losing Flood to waivers if that is what it came down to. Is it worth the risk of losing him for nothing?
With a healthy Enstrom potentially returning tomorrow, our d-corps would look something like this (pairing subject to change obviously):
Buff - Enstrom
Bogosian - Stuart
Hainsey - Oduya
Flood
Injured - Meech, Jones
That "3rd-pairing" of Hainsey and Oduya combines for $8M in salaries. That is simply too much money for the third pairing, but I am having a hard time moving the other guys out of those top-4 slots. This lead me to wonder if the Flyers would have any interest in Ron Hainsey or Johnny Oduya as potential additions to their lineup. Obviously neither guys would replace Chris Pronger, but who would? When it comes right down to it, Hainsey and Oduya are solid defenders that could (or maybe should based on their salaries) play top-4 minutes on a 2nd pairing somewhere.
When healthy, a top-4 of Buff, Enstrom, Bogo and Stuart would be very good, and with how Mark Flood has performed think he has earned a spot on this roster as a 6th or 7th d-man. He is also a bargain at $525,000. I would much rather move Hainsey or Oduya for something, whether it be a prospect or a draft pick, then lose Flood for nothing on waivers.
So, what are your thoughts? Would you move Hainsey or Oduya to the Flyers in order to save some money, add a pick or prospect to the bank, and to open up a spot on the roster for Flood? If so, who would you prefer to move?
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I am all for moving Oduya or Hainsey for futures.
I have nothing against either guy, but Oduya is an RFA at the end of the season and he won’t be back next year. I like his game of late, he can be spectacular, but also makes epic boo boos from time to time.
Hainsey is a very solid and steady two way player. He rarely makes mistakes and he has enough offencive instincts that he can QB a 2nd powerplay unit I’m most teams.
All that said they are expendable. Jones, Flood and Meech are still on the roster. Kulda survived waivers. Festerling survived waivers and was very solid in his time with the team. Not to mention Redmond and Postma who will be fighting for a roster spot next year. Any one or two of those guys could slide into a 5 – 6 D man spot next year.
I suspect one or both of Hainsey / Oduya will be gone by the trade deadline.
by truck on Dec 16, 2011 8:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Presented without comment
Philadelphia Flyers GM Paul Holmgren has a large hole to fill on his back-end
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I recommend Immodium
In Canada our balls are bigger
Writer for Arctic Ice Hockey
by canadian texan on Dec 16, 2011 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
well if truck is recommending it he must have tried it, not that theres anything wrong with that.
by Reed Solomon on Dec 17, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
we pride ourselves on being accepting here at AIH. we even tolerate rider fans
in extremely limited quantities
In Canada our balls are bigger
Writer for Arctic Ice Hockey
by canadian texan on Dec 17, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
Oduya makes more sense than Hainsey
Simply because he only has 1 year left on his deal and Philadelphia can re-asses their situation in the offseason.
That said, there are better options around the NHL that Oduya and whoever they covet will be at less than a 3.5M cap hit (although it will be pro-rated). Just so they won’t be pushing the cap ceiling and can still make additional moves.
Also consider that giving up $3.5M in salary will put Winnipeg around the salary cap floor and it would take more than draft picks or prospect return.
Finally, it never hurts to keep depth at defensive position as it seems like it’s been a rotating door back there all year with a different 6 dressing for every game.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos! Follow me on Twitter @TJCAPS.
I'm sorry, but...
Byfuglien should go. He’s not worth the big salary and Holmgren is apparently desperate and dumb. Maybe we could get Couturier back.
Couturier back?
Screw that, the Islanders stole Strome. Let’s dump Buff on them
In Canada our balls are bigger
Writer for Arctic Ice Hockey
by canadian texan on Dec 17, 2011 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Byfuglien is not going anywhere. He’s picking up his game and getting better as the season progresses. Armchair quarterbacks are the worst. You’d all have fired Coach Noel and half the team by the second week.
by Reed Solomon on Dec 17, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
Well
Gabe’s been calling for this before the Thrashers became the Jets…
Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey
Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.
by Bettman's Nightmare on Dec 17, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Seriously, does anyone still think Buf is better than Bogo?
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/2/7/1977585/espn-byfuglien-trade-a-big-hawks-mistake
Isn’t it always this way? Take flak at the time and the haters are nowhere to be found when public opinion shifts…
Corsi thinks Buff is better than Bogo
They are different players though.
Buff is better offensively and is incredible at striping the puck in 1 on 1s, Bogo is faster and is developing into a better shut down D man.
Both players have shown marked improvement since the start of the season.
I would like to keep Buff, Bogo and Toby long term if possible. Three very interesting and very different talents.
by truck on Dec 17, 2011 12:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think Dustin's better than Bogo
His Corsi’s much better
He’s the one facing the Ovechkins & Heatleys every night
He produces far more offense
He’s been doing it with a weaker partner
They’re facing the same level of competition – either by numbers or by top opponents.
Offense (and defense):
5v5 personal offense: Buf 1.16 P/60; Bogo 0.91 P/60
5v4 +/- per 60: Buf +3.58; Bogo +4.68
4v5 minutes/game: Buf 0:45; Bogo 3:30
As for Oduya vs Stuart – I think Oduya’s much better, but what the hell do I know?
Oh, and the biggest line item:
Cap hit: Buf $5.2M; Bogo $2.5M
Buf is worth nowhere near what he gets paid. Bogo is a bargain.
I'm getting different 5vs4 offensive #'s than you
Buff 3.17
Bogo 1.34
It is interesting that the QoC #’s are the same but Dustin is the one facing other teams top lines. Have a look thru the time on ice H2H reports.
I’d put Stuart slightly ahead of Oduya although neither one is a worldbeater.
I agree that Bogo is a bargain. Part of that is RFA vs. UFA isn’t it?
I’m not sure I agree that Buff isn’t worth his salary though.
5v4 +/- not pts. The PP is no more effective when Buf is on the ice.
I don’t see the difference in the top 10 TOI vs from H2H charts:
Buf – Ovechkin, Backstrom, Stamkos, E. Staal, Wideman, Ponikarovsky
Bogo – Carlson, Alzner, E. Staal, Girardi, Callahan, Parise
I still think Buf is seriously overrated and not worth the $$$.
I enjoy Buff despite his boo boos
The boo boos are less frequent and he does have some all world ability. We would need to get a major piece back to move Buff, a playoff contender won’t do this.
by truck on Dec 17, 2011 9:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
We could only hope he'd be that desperate and dumb
The point for us is that we can probably replace a big chunk of his offence with Postma, and I have my doubts that Postma would pan out to be any less of an adventure in his own zone. Regardless, Postma would be a hell of a lot cheaper.
Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey
Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.
by Bettman's Nightmare on Dec 17, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
We can replace someone 5th in points for defenseman with an AHLer?
Last year Dustin had more points in the NHL than Postma had in the AHL.
"replace a big chunk"
And yes, I think we can do that with Postma. Especially if he takes nearly four shots a game, and gets a buttload of PP time.
Co-Manager at Arctic Ice Hockey
Want Jets historical stats, Gabe Desjardins metrics, Jets prospect scouting reports, player previews, and old school photos from the WHA days? Get your copy of the First Commemorative Maple Street Press Winnipeg Jets Annual for 2011-12 here.
by Bettman's Nightmare on Dec 18, 2011 4:01 AM EST up reply actions
LMAO
buttload of PP time
…..D’ohohohohohohohoho
In Canada our balls are bigger
Writer for Arctic Ice Hockey
by canadian texan on Dec 18, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Oduya would make sense
I like how Oduya has been playing lately but I’d keep Hainsey over him if one of them had to leave. Flood has played better than both Jones and Meech when they were healthy so I’d be concerned about putting him on waivers.
But I don’t think Winnipeg has any defence men available to move that would fit what Philly needs. Cap space is a non-issue for the Jets this year so I wouldn’t even consider that in the decision if they want to move someone.
One of the main problems with Winnipeg’s Dman is the lack of playoff experience. I’m quite certain that Philadelphia wants somebody who capable of replacing Chris Pronger, or at least somebody who comes close to that. Acquiring Oduya means that the Flyers would be less flexible, if they were to want to add more pieces around the TDL.
Holmgren isn’t shy of pulling off huge moves to improve his team. I venture to guess that he’ll approach Nashville again, since they have a trade history. D for O.
The reality is, nobody replaces Pronger, unless Nash moves Webber
The asking price on Weber will be large. A player like Hainsey will be available for a lot cheaper, maybe even one mid round pick. It definitely comes down to whether the Flyers want an all star or a servicable 3 – 4 cailiber player who will help the powerplay.
by truck on Dec 17, 2011 9:35 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Flyers seem to value size enough that somebody like Toby might not be their style.
by truck on Dec 18, 2011 10:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
potential forward to take the empty slot
draft picks and prospects aside, is seems that the Noel has built a solid Jet’s defense since the start of the month. What we really seem to lack are shots (TOO MANY FANCY ASS PASSES THAT END UP IN THE CORNER OR OUT OF THE ZONE) and forwards that can capitalize on shots (last game 0-4 on power play). Maybe we need to cut a forward and a d-man (oduya) and add some more depth, especially to the sagging 2,3,4th lines. Who do you have in mind that this team can afford?
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